Episode 8
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Hey, it's Angela here. Are you a woman in her forties or fifties, which I like to call your second act, and you might be in this unique junction, which is an amazing time in your life, but you might be asking the question, what's next? You may be wanting some more meaning and purpose in your life. You might be wanting to figure out exactly what you want to do.
Would it surprise you that most women, At this age, don't really know what they want for the rest of their lives. And that's because they've been so focused on everybody else. Well, guess what? I'm going to be running a masterclass. And we are going to be asking that question. What's next? And I'm going to help you discover simple action steps.
And strategies and frameworks that have helped me along the way, figure out exactly what I want to do and then put action plans together to make them become a reality. And I want to help you do that as well. So come along to my masterclass, go to AngelaVassallo. [00:01:00] com forward slash masterclass and let's begin to launch your second act and let's make these years your most productive years ever.
I'll see you in the masterclass.
Angela Vasssallo: Hello, and welcome to the launch your second act podcast. I'm your host, Angela Vasallo, and I'm so glad you are here. I'm a businesswoman, author, entrepreneur, speaker, step mom and mom. I know that's a lot of hats and I know that you wear them too. I help ambitious women just like you dream big spark ideas, create more clarity and kick those big ideas into action.
Angela Vasssallo: This podcast was designed for ambitious women who are at the unique. I call it the second act. Women who are conquering life's transitions and are becoming the main character in their second act. It's time to rediscover what you want and how to get [00:02:00] it. Upgrade and master your inner game and raise your standards.
Angela Vasssallo: Hear from amazing women who have overcome, transformed and are reclaiming their desires. Embrace this time in our lives. This is not a time to slow down. It's a call to action to discover what you really want. I hope this podcast inspires you to amplify your belief that you are capable of achieving the Epic life that you dare to envision.
Angela Vasssallo: Let's get started.
Angela Vasssallo: Hello, and welcome to the launch your second act podcast today. We have the amazing clear Jones. On our show, she's a successful copywriter, and I'll tell you a little bit about Clea. Now, Clea won a prize for storytelling when she was six years old and hasn't put a pen down ever since. And after starting her career as a journalist and a radio producer at [00:03:00] Sydney's Radio 2UE, She digressed to the digital realm and found herself as a senior product manager for the Seven News website.
Angela Vasssallo: Clea's second act was launched when her job was made redundant in 2015, which triggered her to start her own content creation business. Fast forward 10 years. And she is an Australian Small Business Champion Award winner and has grown her team to three people, including her older brother, who she gets to be the boss of, and says that this will never get old.
Angela Vasssallo: And after starting her business as a copywriter, Clea now offers content strategy, graphic design, and video editing. And she's helping small businesses to get noticed and get more leads. So welcome, Clea. It's great to have you on the show. And I know that we've known each other for a little while, so it's fabulous to have you here and thank you for being here.
Angela Vasssallo: Thanks for having me. And nice to see you. You're welcome. Okay. So You are the perfect person. I've been wanting to [00:04:00] have you on the show because there's been so much hype about ChatGPT and you're the perfect person to help us understand the impact of AI on our businesses. I know that everyone you talk to is talking about ChatGPT and AI and content creation and how fast people are able to create content these days through being AI generated.
Angela Vasssallo: So my first question to you, Clea, is tell me. Straight out the gate. Is AI ruining a copywriter's business? Yes or no?
Clea Jones: Of course. I'm not going to give you a hundred percent yes or no answer to whether AI is ruining copywriting. It has definitely changed it, and I think the perspective I can offer is if you go right back to the days when. The person selling ice suddenly got replaced by the refrigerator or even a little closer in [00:05:00] history when the, the encyclopedia salesman suddenly found this internet thing coming in.
Clea Jones: At the core, people still need to keep their food cold. People still want information. When it comes to copy, people still want fantastic wording that makes an impact. They're just getting it in a different way. Yes, it has changed copywriting 100 percent for good, but the fact is people will always need fantastic, highly effective wording.
Clea Jones: It's just the way that we're producing that is evolving.
Angela Vasssallo: Absolutely. Yes. Very good points. And yeah, well described because I totally agree. You know, you can't look, I find with ChatGPT, it's a starting point. I certainly wouldn't take the content that's generated and put that, smack that straight onto my website on the front page.
Angela Vasssallo: And I wouldn't put it straight onto any of my social media or my landing pages. So as great [00:06:00] as it is, it's like everything. It can't replace somebody's personal experience, their story, who they are, and how they express themselves. So do you find that that's true? Do you find like, do you find that, yes, okay, that helps you as a starting point?
Angela Vasssallo: And that's fast tracking a lot of things for people, really, let's put it down to that. It's really fast tracking a lot, getting that content a lot quicker, but it's definitely about making sure your messaging comes from you and not being, you know, so AI generated. Would you agree with that?
Clea Jones: Yes, it's a really good way to speed up the process when you use AI.
Clea Jones: A lot of people say this, it gets you off the blank page. It will give you lots of ideas. What I find So interesting about AI is that everyone's out there saying, Hey, use AI, use AI, use AI, grow your business. That's fantastic. But if you receive an email or you see a piece of web copy, or you read a blog, that's obviously AI, you're instantly [00:07:00] going to disengage and you're actually going to drop your perspective of that business.
Clea Jones: So the machines are fantastic for helping us to do our job. Yes. But at the end of the day, we all want to feel like. We are communicating with somebody who really cares about the message that they're putting out there. And if you use AI and it doesn't reflect that you genuinely care, and that you're genuinely there yourself to offer help, it's absolutely going to backfire.
Angela Vasssallo: Totally agree. And I'll give you an example of that. Recently, we were in the process of selling a business and somebody who we were actually going to sell the business to responded with an email that was completely AI generated. When we read it, I was laughing so much. I said, this is ridiculous. It was so long.
Angela Vasssallo: The content was just incredible. The copy was so long and it was just, you could just tell it was so bad. And I know that straight away, I thought, wow, that's a really [00:08:00] intelligent person, a business person, and has gone and done that. That to me just sent this message like, wow, that's. It's just not, it's not authentic and you, you become, I guess, curious about that person, but you also lose a bit of trust because I think you think it's like, if you can't really write yourself a an email and you've got to rely on that, but it, and then it makes just as, it doesn't even make any sense.
Angela Vasssallo: You'd have to be thinking that's crazy. It looks lazy. Would
Clea Jones: Yeah, absolutely. Just slopping AI out there looks lazy and people don't like lazy and people don't want to communicate with a robot. So it's so important to find ways you can use it and then add your own touches. And also this is so important, especially if you're writing blog articles, fact check, because AI makes up stories.
Clea Jones: And it it can't be relied on for the information that it's sharing. So fact check, double check. When I'm researching an article, I might use AI for the [00:09:00] framework, but I'll always go to those relevant and reliable sources. Major publishers direct quotes coming from people's statistics that have been published, maybe by the Bureau of Statistics.
Clea Jones: So you can rely on them. Yes. A chat GPT won't always do that. So you have to be really careful about the information you're sharing as well as the messaging.
Angela Vasssallo: That's a really good point. And they did say that recently as well. I know they had some somebody being interviewed, an AI specialist. And she said the same thing.
Angela Vasssallo: You cannot rely on all the information that AI will generate. It's not always correct. So you, if you are in a position where you need, you know, the correct facts and information, be careful of what you're putting out there. Cause it may not always be the case. Yeah. So I want to talk to you a little bit about, absolutely.
Angela Vasssallo: It can backfire. And. I guess, especially these days, one thing we want is because there's so much noise out there online, your messaging needs to be so clear, but your people will, people aren't silly. They're not stupid. They'll connect with you because they trust you. [00:10:00] And you know, they want to do business with you.
Angela Vasssallo: So it's really important to be, you know, sharing your message from you. So people know who you are. And I'll, that's what I want to start a little bit about. Talk a little bit about now messaging, because I know that you're very good at helping people cut through businesses and, and having their marketing online and getting their message out there.
Angela Vasssallo: So I know with wishy washy, wishy washy messaging, it just won't cut it these days, you know, so many people online they're doing the same thing. And it's not like anyone's created the wheel. It's a lot of people are doing a lot of the same business, but I see the ones that are really cutting through and doing well and their offers are being sold and they're winning online.
Angela Vasssallo: I really find that it comes down to the clarity of their messaging. Would you say that that's what you see in somebody succeeding online?
Clea Jones: It's very important to understand the message that you want to convey. I work with a lot [00:11:00] of different businesses and they go, Oh, we're so good at this. Oh, and we're so good at this.
Clea Jones: Oh, and we're also really good at this. And we go to this and they get really confused about what their hundred percent selling point is. And that's okay. That's that happens for most of us. So with messaging, I think it's important to tell people what you want them to do. It doesn't matter. You might start your message telling a story.
Clea Jones: You might start your message with a bit of a sales pitch. You might start your message with a quote. Make sure at the end, you make it clear how you can help people and what you want them to do. So here's a great anecdote I saw about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If you want this, do this. It's a really good way to get over that stress of what are we going to say?
Clea Jones: What are we going to say? Always remember what you, what you want to ask people to do at the end and what you can offer them in part of the message as well.
Angela Vasssallo: Yeah, that's a really good point. Because, you know, that is the thing that [00:12:00] I really feel is that you obviously need a strategy and, and the more that you can niche down, you know, the more that you can get your messaging clear and niche down, it's really going to help you at the end of the day and obviously good copywriting, you know, because I know that when you read something, it's like, especially me, like I will, I'm the sort of person I'll read a certain amount of copy and I'll know, you know, Whether or not I'm going to engage with that.
Angela Vasssallo: If I'm going to purchase that person's, you know, online course, or if I'm going to move forward with it, I'm a quick thinker. I'll just say, yeah, yeah, that message is exactly what I need. And I'm going to move forward with that. And I think that's where a lot of people get stuck. I know for me as well, you know, getting my messaging very clear.
Angela Vasssallo: Having clarity on it so you can, you know, what, when you, when you put it out there, your copyright is so good that, and the people can engage with it and say, yeah, I'm going to go from here. And I'm going to move into purchasing with that person. What, what, what are some of the [00:13:00] tips that you could give somebody starting out in business that they could get clear on their messaging and they're getting good copyright out there for, for people to understand their message?
Angela Vasssallo: I think that there's some touch points that are good to touch on. The first thing you need to do, it depends of course, what kind of copy you're presenting and your strategy for your copy. So your social media posts will be different to your website copy, which will be different a little bit to your newsletter, which will be different to your longer blog articles.
Clea Jones: The first thing to think about is capturing these people's interests. You need to make them curious. You need to make them go. I want to find out what what that's about you also have to think is what I'm putting forward relevant to this person. So for example, if you're putting together website copy, people love to come up with creative wordy headlines that read really well and kind of play on words.
Clea Jones: I think with website copy for most businesses, especially small businesses, up front and center, who are you? What do you do? [00:14:00] Okay. I've got to get that up high so people know. So they've probably, their interest has been captured maybe through Google or somebody's told them something. They land on the page and they say, who is this person or business?
Clea Jones: What do they do? And then the next thing, yep. And then the next thing is to start. Putting in some contents that they can relate to. So talk about the problems that they have and make it feel as though you understand them. And this is the same for your blog articles, and it can apply to your social media as well.
Clea Jones: Start with a problem that they can relate to, and then start to paint that picture of what the solution is going to look like. So They're going to go from stressed and overwhelmed to relaxed, comfortable, happy, and financially secure, things like that. And then, as I mentioned before, make sure you tell them what to do, book a call, download something for free, keep them on the journey with you.
Clea Jones: And don't forget that a lot of people get afraid to tell people what to do. They don't want to come across as pushy, especially women in business. They say to me, Oh, I don't want to overwhelm people. I don't want people to think I'm [00:15:00] being pushy. It's not you, it's your brand and you have to separate that.
Clea Jones: Yeah,
Angela Vasssallo: so it's just so important to have that call to action because that's the thing it's like, oh, okay So they do this this and this how do I work with them? Like what's next? Like how do I get some more information on this? So that's the thing. We have a very very good call to action Yeah, so do you find that look, people don't like to be sold to, we all know that and so, you know, but if you've got a problem that, you know, you know, you can solve somebody's problem and you really want to be able to be clear on your messaging to get that out there.
Angela Vasssallo: What would you say is the best way to be able to, to get that out? Would you say it's this call to action? Would it come down to really good copy? Would it be, you know, your it's, is it, you know, in your landing pages, your social media, or is it the fact that they've got to see you a certain amount of times?
Angela Vasssallo: Before they will [00:16:00] engage, is there, because I know that there used to be this certain number of times you had to be seen for somebody to then purchase from you or engage with you or download your information. What do you think is the, how would you find, what is the actual number of many times you should be seen out there in social media?
Clea Jones: They say, I think it was seven and now it's nine. The fact is it depends. And I've been doing a lot of research lately because I started as a copywriter and my business is evolving and I'm taking on more marketing as a bigger, much bigger picture.
Angela Vasssallo: Right. You
Clea Jones: read a lot of things online. They say. Boom.
Clea Jones: This is what's going to work. Boom. This is what's going to work. No one thing is going to work. So there are a couple of points. You have to look at the growth of your business like a jigsaw puzzle. There are multiple pieces that you have to get in place and a lot of those pieces have pieces within them.
Clea Jones: So it is going to take time and then you have to think about the [00:17:00] funnel and you're going to have a lot of people who are aware of you, but never, ever, ever work with you. That's fine. Then you're going to have people who are aware of you. They might not work with you, but they're going to recommend you to their friends and so on and so forth.
Clea Jones: And then you get the people who are aware of you. They want to work with you, but they can't afford to. The bottom of the funnel is really small. The people who are aware of you want to work with you and have the money to spend, especially in today's economy. It's getting really tight. So you have to have, Oh, you probably can't see me doing all these hand motions.
Clea Jones: The top of your funnel has to be as wide as possible. possible so that the bottom of your funnel is wide as well. And, and don't get hung up on thinking one thing. It is a hundred percent going to work all of the time. You might do one thing and it gets you two clients suddenly because it was just a matter of right place, right time.
Clea Jones: But generally it's the jigsaw that's going to get [00:18:00] you what you need and also investing in the right professionals to help you.
Angela Vasssallo: Yes. Totally, totally agree with that. You have to spend money to make money and you can't be an expert at everything. So I've always known that, you know, my mentors have always said that to me, engage into the experts, bring them in, get the thing done right.
Angela Vasssallo: And fast track it. I'm bit, I'm always about fast tracking. If I can get someone to do that for me, I know that that job's done tick and I can then move on to the next thing, because you're right. When you think about the amount. Of marketing that we're doing, I was going to say to you, is it people still reading long copy?
Angela Vasssallo: Are they reading short copy? But then you've got, you've got website, you've got Facebook ads, you've got Instagram, you've got LinkedIn, you've got, you know, Facebook, you've got podcasts. There is so much that you can market on now. And we are, and if you are good, you're good. If you do have a business, you really should be on literally all of those platforms.
Angela Vasssallo: So that's a lot of content and that, that comes down to kind of clever marketing as well. So yeah, it is important to [00:19:00] make sure that you, I guess, do you find that it's about tweaking for each one and regularly tweaking and seeing what works, what's not working. And, you know, tweaking your marketing and your, you know, your engagement out there as well.
Clea Jones: Marketing, marketing is definitely a dark art and not a science. And there is always going to be trial and error involved. That's why it's good to work with somebody who has done trial and error on other clients and on themselves. I can guarantee if you're trying to grow your business right now, you probably need to be doing more marketing than you are.
Clea Jones: But the advantage is, You can turn one piece of copy into multiple pieces of copy. So you don't need to write a blog and say, okay, I've written a blog. What do I do now? What you need to do now is turn that blog into 10 different social media posts, turn it into an email, turn it into a video, keep going repurpose the same idea as many times as you can to get more volume out there, because you have to remember as well that not everybody is seeing the [00:20:00] content that you're sharing every single time.
Angela Vasssallo: That's so true. And that's the thing you think that. You've got this one thing out there and you think everyone's going to see it, but they don't. Like it's, it's, they just don't. And if you want to get past your family and friends, you know, it's like you've got to get right out there to, you know, really target market your audience.
Angela Vasssallo: So the repurposing, and I think that's something that has probably been my weakness. I've got, you know, you have so much content out there and then, but if you go back and say, hey, we could take that and repurpose that newsletter into an Instagram story or you know, a blog or even a podcast and yeah, that's a really good way, good way of thinking about it.
Angela Vasssallo: Because yeah, like I said, that's something that I just haven't had a strength in. I haven't been repurposing. I've been putting a lot of content out there, but not repurposing it. So I think that's a, a clever move. Yeah. You probably have articles that you wrote a year ago that are just as relevant and easy to share today and it can save [00:21:00] you a lot of time, especially if you've got a team, if you have a team working with you.
Angela Vasssallo: Yes. Yeah. No, that's a really good point. So communicating your message is in a way that, how do you do that in a way that people see your value? And so they go from being interested into ready to purchase and I know that that's a big step from here to here And it also comes down to the price of your product But if you're working in a high ticket offer For instance, you really need to make sure that you're ticking all the boxes along the way and you're you're Explaining very clearly the value of that.
Angela Vasssallo: So what would be, you know, a couple of tips that you would say to somebody to be able to, to show their value of what they're offering and then move from that interested into a purchasing client? There's three different things I can think of off the top of my head to really build that trust with people.
Clea Jones: The first is simple. It's testimonials. A lot of people say, Oh, I don't have time to ask for [00:22:00] testimonials. If you go through your inbox, you've probably got emails from people that say, Hey, really fantastic work. Well done. You don't have to name them. You can take that and turn it into a simple graphic testimonial.
Clea Jones: And share it. You might want to quickly let them know, Hey, can I use this as a testimonial? If they say no, you can just leave it anonymous or move on to something else. I quite often get told that I'm designing the website as well as writing the website. And I always say, make sure you've got some testimonials and people find that they do have plenty.
Clea Jones: The other one is case studies. If you can tell a story. about the way you've helped people and how they went from this to this. And even though I'm a writer, the third thing to keep in mind is numbers. If you can say, I took somebody from one to 10 or 10 to a hundred or a hundred to a thousand and grab a testimonial and break it into a longer case study, that is the evidence that people need.
Clea Jones: And probably if I'm going to say a fourth one, if you can do video, fantastic. Get somebody talking to camera about you. If you have the time and the budget and the [00:23:00] capabilities that's really going to build that trust as the evidence that you're good to work with.
Angela Vasssallo: Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. Excellent points.
Angela Vasssallo: That's great. Well, thank you, Clea. It's been so great to have you on our show today and sharing all your wisdom. And like I said, I know how great you are with content and, you know, your copywriting because you've helped me along the way as well. And you're very, very clever. And you've got those skills.
Angela Vasssallo: And I've always said, you know, find the people with the skills because, you know, when you, when you find people with the skills, the skills play pay the bills. So it just, Fast tracks, everything tweaks it for you. And and I really think that we just should not just be focusing on the AI. I really believe like we've been talking about today is that it is so important to still really spend a lot of time on your messaging and your own personal copywriting because the AI is good, but at the end of the day, nothing says more about your message than when you're being authentic.
Angela Vasssallo: And sharing it from your heart and it [00:24:00] becomes who you are and because people will always see through that. So yeah, so I think brilliant to have you on the show today, Clea. It's been really great. Thank you.
Clea Jones: Thanks for having me. One more thing I wanted to mention is that AI doesn't have any loyalty to you and it will create copy for you the same as another person.
Clea Jones: So be mindful. for having somebody
Angela Vasssallo: else who has the same information, content as you.
Clea Jones: Absolutely the same, so always put your own touch on things.
Angela Vasssallo: So where can people find you, Clea? Because I know people are, you know, one of the biggest things people are struggling with is copyright and messaging and cutting through all that noise out there and getting their message out there.
Angela Vasssallo: So how can they work with you?
Clea Jones: Great question. My website is very simple. It is freelancecopywriter. com. au. And my name is very Google friendly, so you can just Google Clea Jones and you'll probably be able to find me on LinkedIn where I do tend to be quite active. And there's also a bit of a special offer I've put together for your [00:25:00] listeners.
Clea Jones: So if you go to freelancecopywriter. com. au forward slash second dash act, I think we're going to pop that in the show notes. There's a free content marketing checklist and a couple of other offers that are, that are going to help you get started with the content you need to promote your business.
Clea Jones: Thanks.
Angela Vasssallo: Yeah. Brilliant. I mean, a checklist like that, just to go through and say, yeah, am I doing all these things right? Is fantastic. And not only that, you know, Clea's won the Australian Small Business Awards and what was that for? Was that best copywriting? What was that for? That was in the sole trader
Clea Jones: category.
Clea Jones: And you won you won the year before and I watched you on stage and I went, Oh, I wonder if I can do that. So that was a big inspiration for me to really up the standard of my entry. And since then I've helped a few people as well get into the finals. It's such an exciting feeling to get up on that stage.
Clea Jones: It is exciting.
Angela Vasssallo: But you know, that is because you are doing so well. So when you do win those awards, it's, it's because you are one of the best. You know, in your industry. So, and I know that for a fact that you are, and I know that if we, if we're going to put everything into the show [00:26:00] notes about your business, and we'll definitely put that link in there where people can download the checklist as well.
Angela Vasssallo: And not only that, you know, people can work with you to get a strategy, a content strategy, but they can also work with you to help them create. A full year's worth of content. And I mean, how great would that be to not have to worry every single week about what am I going to say? What am I going to write?
Angela Vasssallo: What blog am I going to do? You know, you, you, you're able to fast track all that for them and help them become really, really clear on their messaging and create the content for them, which I think is brilliant because I know for a fact that will save you so much time creating that strategy as well. So.
Angela Vasssallo: For anyone that wants to engage with Clea, definitely click the link below and you'll be able to get in contact with Clea and, and work together. But thanks again, Clea. I know it's been great to have you on the show. I know that all those points that we covered today about AI and content creation and you know, everything else is going to help so many people just starting out in business or if they're already got their business up and running.
Angela Vasssallo: So thanks again. [00:27:00] Really great to have you here. Thanks for having me. All right. Speak to you soon. Bye for now.
Clea Jones: Bye.
Angela Vasssallo: Thank you. Thank you for tuning in today. I really appreciate it. Like I've always said, there are so many podcasts out there that you can listen to. And the fact that you're here listening to this one, I'm so grateful. So Thank you so much. This podcast is all about taking center stage of your life in your second act.
Angela Vasssallo: And your second act isn't a time to slow down. It's a call to action. It's your life and it's your rules. Thank you again. I really, really appreciate you. And if you think that anybody would benefit from this, please share and even tag me in at Angela Vasallo and subscribe. I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.
Angela Vasssallo: Bye for now.
